INTERVIEW: Girl Ray

Having been a huge fan of London trio Girl Ray since first falling in love with 2016’s single ‘Trouble’, and going on to relish in the quirky, uplifting indie-pop goodness of albums Earl Grey (2017) and Girl (2019), I am super excited that they’ll be releasing their third album Prestige next month.

A band close to my heart (it was after their set at Indietracks festival 2018 that I proposed to my partner – they’re a big fave of ours!) and one who continue to develop and hone their distinctive sparkling sounds with each new release, this latest offering of theirs draws on the danceable allure of disco, complete with funk-fuelled hooks and the band’s distinctive shimmering blissful energy. Emanating bucketfuls of colourful, queer joy, it’s the perfect soundtrack to the summer: a gently empowering swirling blast of euphoria that is needed now more than ever.

I was lucky enough to catch up with Poppy, Iris and Sophie for a chat about the new album, being women in the industry, their festival essentials (no pots and pans!) and more… Have a read and make sure you pre-order Prestige now!

 

Meeting via Zoom on a rainy Monday evening, Girl Ray manage to find some time out of their busy schedule to have a quick chat. Having been quite quiet over the last few months, they are currently in the midst of a busy few weeks, leading up to the album release on 4th August. This weekend just gone’s been particularly busy, with the band supporting Ben Howard at Alexandra Palace park on Saturday. “It was good, but extremely wet!”, Poppy recalls when I ask how it went. But, in spite of the rain, it was a quite a special venue for the band to play, being North London locals who’ve attended lots of gigs there themselves – “it’s kind of a bucket-list thing to do”, Poppy shares. So, despite the awful weather and tiredness (“we were running on about 3 hours sleep because we had our club night the night before”), it all went well – good views of the palace while playing, and a nice discovery that Ben Howard is a fan of the band. 

The club night that Poppy mentions was the special Prestige club night, hosted by the band at The George Tavern on Friday to celebrate the upcoming album release. “It was hard staying up that late”, Iris admits, “… but it was really fun! Loads of people can down for it, and my parents DJ-ed. They loved it!”. Having DJ-ed throughout the ‘80s and the early ‘90s it seems Iris’ parents are pros at spinning tunes – “much better than us!”, Poppy adds. Although the band have DJ-ed before, this was the first time they had put on an event of this kind, and they have promised to do it again – “It was quite amazing really! Iris mainly did all the organising, and just the simplicity of putting on an event is quite amazing. It’s not as difficult as one might think. Just a really fun thing to do, everyone should be doing it!” 

Moving on to discuss the reason for the celebrations, I ask about the inspirations behind the album, and how the queer ballroom scene of the ‘80s played a part: “I was watching Pose while writing it”, Poppy explains, “… and the soundtrack, and the aesthetic, aside from it being a great TV show, just drew my attention more to that scene, and let me delve more into the roots of disco. And I found that super inspirational as a writing tool, so tried my hand writing a few more disco-inspired songs.” After the three of them decided that it would be a good direction for the record, and writing some more tracks in that vein, the name Prestige came about – “it’s always been a kind of joke within our friendship group; like when we were teenagers, instead of saying ‘Oh, that’s cool’, it would be ‘Oh, that’s prestige’… It’s kind of a special word to our friendship!” And then, Poppy’s mum gave it the final push, when told about the name, “she said ‘that sounds like one of the naff clubs I would go to in the ‘80s’, so that sold it! That became the album cover, and then that kind of informed the aesthetic of the album campaign.” The band were able to use this aesthetic not only for the album visuals, but were able to draw on the whole disco and ballroom themes as inspiration for their songwriting, as well as their musicality – “Our playing styles naturally went a bit disco-y”, Iris reflects, “our style definitely lent itself to the genre.” 

Once they had written the album, they naturally needed to find someone to help produce it. Poppy had been working alongside Ben H. Allen (M.I.A, Christina Aguilera) for a writing session for one of the songs on the album, and got on really well with him, so – despite not being fully aware of his accolades – decided to ask him to be involved, and he was up for it, and very down to earth and easy to work with. As Poppy explains: “…he’s a really friendly guy, and he made us feel really welcome. And I think that just speaks to his experience and expertise as a producer. He put us all at ease and we felt really comfortable.” As Sophie so eloquently puts it, “he’s the definition of Prestige”. 

Being Girl Ray’s third album, Prestige uses what the trio have learnt over the years to create something honed and polished – showcasing a band with experience and innovation. Sophie reflects: “It kind of tied together how we recorded the first and second albums in a lot of ways. Because the first record was very much live, and playing together in a room, and the second one swung completely the other way, recording everything separately. And this one is a mix of the two.” Discussing the recording process, Iris explains, “Poppy wrote the songs and they were pretty fully formed. And we then had to structure our time recording quite well because we didn’t have loads of time.” Despite the time constraints, however, they still felt able to experiment and develop their sound – Poppy adds, “We’ve been a band almost 10 years now, and so we definitely know more and how to achieve it. Looking at all the albums side by side, with this one I think we have found our footing a bit more in terms of our sound and what works for us.” 

As well as creating uplifting, musically rich songs, one of the things I love most about Girl Ray is their ability to channel their personalities into their videos. In the run up to this album in particular, they’ve created some fantastic visual accompaniments to the singles; I ask them about the process of doing this, and mention that my current fave would have to be ‘Everybody’s Saying That’ (a Studio 54-inspired visual, showcasing all the roller skatingy queer joy you could ever desire). Reflecting on the process, Iris explains: “We kind of either have a concept or work together with a director. The director for ‘Everybody’s Saying That’ – Alice Harding – is someone we’ve worked with (barista-ed with!) in the past, and she was just getting into directing, and we had this idea that we wanted the club of Prestige to be in the video…” Although the band initially approached Harding because she was a roller skater, on discovering she was also getting into directing, they recruited her immediately, and she then came up with the plot and concept. Discussing their love of video making, the band reflect on how being such good friends with a similar sense of humour always helps, and, Poppy adds, “we don’t want to take ourselves too seriously, and videos are a fun way to express that.” As well as working with Alice Harding, Girl Ray have predominantly working with long-time friend and director Alex Cantouris in making their videos – “He’s really great and gets us. He’s been working with us since we were 17, so he knows exactly what we want. And it’s always a really fun process!” 

Now that the album’s ready to be unleashed into the world, the band are focusing on some live dates to promote it, including some in-store shows over the next couple of weeks, ahead of their full European tour in the winter. With this in mind, I ask if there’s been a particular gig that Girl Ray have played over the years that stands out as a particular highlight – “Anytime we play a hometown show – anytime we play London – it’s really important to us”, Poppy says, specifying dates at Scala and Electric Ballroom as stand outs. “Scala was especially vibey”, Iris adds, “because we’d just released Earl Grey and got loads of people up with us for the title track which was really fun. It just felt like a very exciting time for us.” Whereas, with support slots or festival sets, it’s easy for a band to doubt themselves and feel like the audience aren’t really there for them, these headline gigs seem particularly special – “When it’s a headline show in the town you grew up in, with people coming down and knowing all the words to your songs, it’s just really touching.”

But, with highlights come lowlights, the band remind me, singling out their first ever proper gig at The Cavendish Arms in Stockwell as one they’ll always remember… Still in school, and having handed out flyers in their common room the day before, they were still really learning to play their instruments, and hadn’t impressed their singing teacher who had previously criticised their singing style as being “too airy” (I’m sure she’s kicking herself now!). 

Festivals can also sometimes bring lowlights, with the mud / expensive food and drink / tent setting up that’s involved, but Girl Ray are looking forward to playing Green Man next month, and it sounds like they’ll be very well prepared: “I normally end up taking my whole house and then some! But I’m trying to minimise now…” Reminded by Iris that there is food at festivals, Poppy agrees not to bring her stove this time, as Sophie remembers, “We normally take one of those IKEA bags full of cans of things, and pots and pans…” So, no stove or pots and pans this year, but then what are Girl Ray’s top tips for festival goers I hear you ask… Iris and Poppy sensibly conclude that wet wipes, a battery pack and ear plugs (for the snorers in the tent next to you) are must haves, whilst Sophie sums up the festival experience in one sentence – “It’s not really a festival until you have the warmest beer of your whole entire life.”  

With Poppy and Sophie initially meeting at a ‘rock school’ as teens (“nothing like the Brit School, more like an after school club”), and after nearly 10 years together as a band, I ask how they feel the industry is for new bands and artists now, and how it compares now to when they first started out. “It can be hard”, Poppy reflects, “It’s like a job, being in a band! One that we all really enjoy, but a job for sure.” Iris agrees, “Yeah, when you’re a new artist it’s all really exciting and then you get to a point where you realise the amount of effort it takes to put into a band.” One of the main efforts these days, it seems, is the need for bands to promote themselves on social media – “We’ve started to see some phases come and go”, Poppy reflects, “Like when we started, Facebook was the place where you’d be shouting about gigs and stuff, and then it was Instagram, and now if you’re not on Tik Tok then you’re doomed!” In addition to the pressure to push your unique aesthetic and create a social media presence, new bands now seem to have to make more of an effort to stand out in an increasingly saturated industry, “On the one hand it’s amazing that everybody is able to release music into the internet”, Poppy explains, “but it means some people are getting overlooked… It’s hard, it’s hard to ‘make it’, especially in this cost of living crisis where everything’s so expensive. To be in a band is hard.” 

Being women in the industry, I wonder whether Girl Ray have faced any challenges in relation to this, and if it has affected the way that they’ve been treated as a band. “I think there are some obvious times where it would be easier to be a guy, or to be straight guys”, Poppy begins, “But saying that, at the end of the day, we just make music and put music out, so it’s hard to say whether the reception would be different if we’d been guys… But we’re lucky to live in a society that’s pretty liberal. As a queer woman, I get by ok, living in London. But obviously there’s work to be done elsewhere. But we’re lucky it’s not really something we have to think about. I mean, the only time I’m thinking about it really is when writing – like I’m keen to use female pronouns in romantic songs, just because there wasn’t so much of that when I was growing up, so it’s cool to try that.” It’s really great that Girl Ray feel confident and able to do this, and to create such life-affirmingly relatable and enjoyable songs, but there are still times – particularly when playing live – that the ol’ patriarchal society makes itself known. “I guess the main time we’re confronted with it is with sound engineers”, Iris points out. “… They often don’t treat women in the same way as they treat men, and that can be a little bit disheartening! So, they still have some work to do…” Poppy adds, “It’s normally just micro aggressions – just mansplaining basically! It doesn’t happen all the time, but often times when we’re setting up it can be annoying.” Reflecting on a particular instance recently where a sound engineer started tracking Iris’ drums while she was setting up, Poppy scathes, “Imagine if someone just came up and started tuning my guitar! This is my job – fuck off. And some weird comments you get – like asking me to sing into the microphone, like “oh, sorry, I didn’t know what that was for!” They can overstep the mark a lot, sometimes… They can think that they’re helping, but are kind of really not.” As a band who’ve been going for nearly a decade, about to release their third album, and with worldwide success, still being treated this way by men when simply trying to do their job must be extremely frustrating, as can be the general attitude of some people towards ‘women in bands’, as Sophie notes: “It’s not even industry specific, but sometimes when I tell other people I’m in a band there’s a lot of assumptions about what that is – like, ‘let me guess, you’re the bassist!’ And ‘Oh that’s so cute that you’re in a band’… There’s this assumption that all women in bands must play bass, but I’m like ‘I’m actually playing with other women’… All those kinds of things. We’re generally taken a lot less seriously. I mean, it’s not bad because yeah we have fun, and yeah we’re cute! But it is a little bit patronising…” 

I can confirm that Girl Ray are indeed incredibly cute, and they certainly seem to have a lot of fun. It’s partly because of this colourful wit and joyous energy that I’ve been a fan for so long. But any mansplainy sound engineers, or anyone who doubts their full potential, or fails to take them seriously, can do one. They are a “serious band” (though they all giggle when Iris says this); one who not only bring joy and fun to all they do, but who have developed and honed their craft for nearly a decade, creating a truly unique sound that is distinctly theirs. Whilst Prestige signals a move forwards for Girl Ray, a collection by a band who’ve truly “found their footing”, it also maintains all there is to love about the London trio – a shimmering charisma, relentless optimism and (now disco-ified) sparkling danceable allure. A much-needed euphoric antidote to all that’s going in the world today.

HUGE thanks to Girl Ray for taking the time to speak me!

Prestige is out on 4th August via Moshi Moshi. Pre-order and find out about all their upcoming live dates here.

Also, check out Kuntessa – an awesome new artist recommended by Girl Ray, who Poppy’s worked with producing some of their tracks, and who will be supporting them on some of these dates!

 

Photo Credit: Eerie Rose

 

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Introducing Interview: Joanna Sternberg

With acclaim from the likes of Rolling Stone and Pitchfork, New York based artist and multi-instrumentalist Joanna Sternberg has just released their second album, I’ve Got Me. Recorded with producer Matt Sweeney and engineer Daniel Schlett, Sternberg masterfully played every single instrument on the record, and solely wrote each and every song, showcasing their ability to create a truly exquisite, genre-spanning collection. With an education in Classical and Jazz music, throughout the album Sternberg weaves a rich tapestry of beautifully lilting folk-strewn sounds alongside reflective narrative lyricism; all brought together with their raw, impassioned vocals. A truly exquisite listen.

We caught up with Joanna to find out more about the album, their influences, the industry today and what’s next… Have a read!

Hi Joanna! Welcome to Get In Her Ears! Can you tell us a bit about yourself?
Hi! My name is Joanna Sternberg. I’m a singer songwriter and visual artist, and I play a bunch of musical instruments too. I live in New York City and I just put out my second record.

Are you able to tell us a bit about how you initially started creating music? 
I initially started creating music because when I was little I would sing to myself and hum a lot, and so my parents sent me to piano lessons. And then in middle school I taught myself guitar and electric bass and then, in high school, I learned double bass and then I went to college for double bass. Then I wound up learning how to sing when I was twenty one. So, I guess that’s the full story! And then the songwriting came.

I really love your stirring folk-strewn musicality and reflective narrative lyricism, but who would you consider to be your main musical influences?
Thank you! Well, I really love Louis Armstrong, and I really love folk music. And I really love The Beatles, and blues. But, I guess in terms of influences that are people, I guess Louis Armstrong, Randy Newman, The Beatles, Elliott Smith, Billy Strayhorn. 

And how would you say your experience and training in Jazz and Classical music feeds into what you now create?
I would say it feeds into it a lot because I really go to Jazz and Classical for melodic and chordal ideas the most, probably, and I think they complement each other really well and can be interchangeable a lot of the time. I feel so lucky to have the Jazz and Classical background because it really enabled me to write songs.

You’ve just released your brand new album I’ve Got Me,  which is very exciting – congratulations! Are you able to tell us a bit about it? Are there any particular themes running throughout it? 
I’ve Got Me is a collection of songs I wrote just basically about the span of human emotions. All the songs are just autobiographical about me, but I think anyone can relate to them. I’m singing it about certain things, but that doesn’t mean the person listening has to know what that means. They can have their own thing. It’s for them. It’s just songs that I want to make people feel less alone. That’s the theme, I guess. 

You play all the instruments on the record and had a very large part in its production – what prompted this decision? And what was the recording process like for you? 
I really, really wanted to always play all the instruments on my own record – I just always had a dream of that. I thought it would be a magical experience and I wanted to try it, and I was right! It was the most fun thing, and everyone around me validated it – everyone in the studio told me that it sounded great, and as long as they said that, I was ready to keep going. It just was so fun and it allowed me to be myself as much as possible. The recording process was really great once we got into the studio. It was fantastic working with Matt Sweeney – everything was so easy and comfortable and meant to be, really. It was all very natural and awesome, and the best possible circumstances. 

You’ve played a lot of live shows in various forms across New York City, from playing bass in jazz bands to supporting Conor Oberst, but is there a particular show you’ve played over the years that stands out as a highlight? 
A show I was really proud of was my record release. I released it before the pandemic, and I had the record release show at this place called The Glove, which I really used to love to play at that has now closed. It was a DIY venue, and it was just a really special show and the place was packed with people I love. All my friends who played were great, and at the end we all jammed together, and it was just really special and I was really proud. I miss that place.

And are there any other current venues in New York that you really love too? 
Right now, I really love playing at Union Pool – it’s a great venue. And I also love playing at Sunny’s Bar when out on tour.

When out on tour, are there any particular essentials that you like to take with you to keep you going when away from home? 
I definitely like to take my art supplies, because then I can make merch while I’m travelling, as well as just draw for myself – so, it’s always good to have my sketchbooks and stuff. And I also have my Nintendo Switch to play Animal Crossing!

How do you feel the industry is for new artists at the moment? And do you feel much has changed over the last few years in its treatment of female/gender non-conforming and queer artists? 
I think it’s been a lot more inclusive over the last few years for queer artists and non male artists, and that’s really great. And I think people are really bringing awareness to Inclusivity and making a big point to care about it. Regarding the industry for new artists at the moment, I guess it’s good, but can be a little scary. The internet is a little intimidating and can lead to a lot of bad things, but it can also be useful and nice if you’re careful on it. But it is hard not to come across really upsetting things of how badly people treat each other. So, I guess the internet could be a tool to use, but it could also be something that can be dangerous. So, it’s kind of complicated, but the internet is the thing really – it all seems to be based around that now!

As we’re a new music focused site, are there any other upcoming artists you’re loving right now that you’d recommend we check out?
Oh my gosh, there’s so many upcoming artists that I recommend you check out! One of them is my friend Liam Kirby, who’s such an amazing songwriter. He’s on Instagram and he’s putting out a record, we’re just figuring out how to get that out there. And then my other friend, Jackie West, is another really amazing songwriter and she’s putting out a record soon that she is finishing up. She’s on Instagram, but she’s always playing shows. So I would say to check both of those two out ASAP if I was you! 

Finally, what does the rest of 2023 have in store for you? 
I get to go on two really exciting tours! One of them is opening for Kurt Vile – so exciting! Then I get to open for Angel Olsen – so amazing, that’s going to be great. And I think I might be coming to the UK too. So, all of that is so cool. And yeah, I’m just so happy with everything!

Massive thanks to Joanna for answering our questions!

Their exquisite new album, I’ve Got Me, is out now via Fat Possum records. Check it out here.

Photo Credit: Michael Leviton

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INTERVIEW: Kate Webster of Deer Shed Festival

Last year I attended Deer Shed Festival for the first time, and I promised myself it would the be the first time of many as it was such a glorious weekend! Having not been to a festival for a few years, I was keen to find one that was as lovely as possible, and suited my needs of being perhaps a little older than the average festival-goer without missing out on any of the best new music. I wanted a festival that was inclusive, chilled-out, family friendly, and of course hosting plenty of amazing female and non-binary bands and artists… And Deer Shed more than delivered on all fronts.

Highlighting a real family-friendly focus, whilst hosting an incredible range of exciting new artists, the North Yorkshire based Deer Shed perfectly filled the festival-shaped-void I’d been feeling, and – with highlights from last year including Self Esteem, CMAT, Straight Girl, Nadine Shah and Denise Chaila – I cannot wait to return in a couple of weeks.

We caught up with festival director Kate Webster to talk more about Deer Shed’s roots, its ethos and inclusive line-up, some of the most special Deer Shed moments of years gone by, and more… Have a read below, and have a listen to our special Deer Shed 2023 playlist, featuring some of our personal faves who’ll be playing at the festival this year, at the bottom of this feature!

Hi Kate! 2023 will be Deer Shed’s 13th year – hopefully lucky for some! Can you tell us a bit about what Deer Shed is all about, and how it all started out?
Deer Shed Festival is a boutique music, arts & science festival based in North Yorkshire parkland, aimed at families who don’t want a dumbed down experience just because you have kids in tow.

What strikes me about Deer Shed and makes it stand out against other festivals at the moment is the good gender balance of the line up – was there an intentional and specific decision to do this, or does it just naturally pan out that way?  
I booked the festival up until our 11th year and initially it happened unconsciously just because of the music I like. After a while, we decided it make it a policy of the festival that our gender split should be 50/50 and also at least one of the headlines needs to be female and/or non binary. It’s been great – because of our size we have been able to give some deserving acts the chance of a festival headline. Can you believe that we gave Goldfrapp they’re first festival headline in 2018?! I find that bonkers!

Over the last 12 years, you’ve hosted some amazing bands and artists including Self Esteem, Nadine Shah, CMAT, Kae Tempest, Anna Calvi, Big Joanie, Ezra Furman, The Go Team! and Honeyblood, but has there been a particular set that stands out for you as a personal highlight over the years?
Kae Tempest for sure. It was 2017, they were promoting Let Them Eat Chaos which is a phenomenal album, and it was also their first festival headline. The actual performance was extra special to me and many of the audience that evening.  The skies darkened, the rain poured and in the distance, lightning flashed. It meant, for those who stayed (and a lot did), the whole experience was electrifying and so moving. I still get shivers now when I think about the power of that evening. It was like nature knew what the backdrop should be for that performance.


And this year you’ve got some GIHE faves playing (The Big Moon, Dream Wife, This Is The Kit, English Teacher, Sprints…). Curating such awesome line ups must be a lot of work – how do you normally go about it? Is it all based on bands/artists that have got in touch with you over the year? 
We’ve had a booker for the last couple of years – I think Covid meant the job had got harder and I needed a break. It was also a good time to get some fresh ears to help. However, as festival director, I still want input and I think next year we’ll bring it in house again. We generally start with a wish list and play fantasy festival which is great fun; the whole Deer Shed team are into music, so everyone chips in and has suggestions of who they have seen perform during the year or might have new music coming out. We talk to friends in the industry and agents, so see what’s going on. Practically speaking, we only start making offers in Autumn, so that’s the best time to contact us. We must get the headlines in place before moving down the bill which can take some time.

And for any upcoming bands/artists looking to apply for festivals next year, do you have any tips?
Start building a live following in your local venues. Practice to become a great performer and engage with your audience. A festival crowd is different to your own show – you have one song to win them over! Whilst a lot of artists get an online following and good streaming numbers, it doesn’t always translate to live.

There seems to be a definite focus on making the festival as family-friendly as possible, and when I was there last year it just had the nicest, most relaxed vibes I’ve ever experienced at a festival! What inspired the idea to do this, and stand out from other festivals in this way? 
When Oliver and I decided to give it a go, it wasn’t long after festivals like Latitude & Camp Bestival had started and there was no one doing anything similar in the north. I couldn’t see live music like I had done because of family commitments, and many events near by didn’t offer me the chance to see great music and have the kids entertained. So, Deer Shed was really built for me & my friends initially – music fans who happen to have kids. It turned out there were other people like me!

Do you feel much has changed over the last few years in the music industry’s treatment of new artists, particularly female and non-binary artists? 
I think there is more awareness of mental health and agents/managers are now more mindful over booking artists. I also hope the idea of booking a tokenistic female/non-binary act has come to an end… But I do still worry that some young female artists are led a certain way on how they present and what they wear. There seem to be some genres of music where I’m not convinced that a stylist/photographer/label didn’t have a brief to come back with a certain look.  

Finally, as we’re a new music focused site, are there any particular new bands or artists you’d recommend we check out?
I’m totally excited that we managed to book Grove this year. I know they’re not that new but their energy, style & music is infectious. So good live! I’ve not seen Pet Snake live yet, but I’m loving the Liverpool based artist – alt folk/indie at its best, just great songwriting.  

Massive thanks to Kate for answering our questions, and for organising such a stellar festival year on year! Deer Shed Festival 2023 is taking place from 28th – 30th July and headliners include The Delgados, The Comet Is Coming, The Big Moon and This Is The Kit – more information here.

Get ready for the festival by listening to our playlist of brilliant bands playing this year here:

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INTERVIEW: Lucy O’Brien on Karen Carpenter

Having been big fans of author and journalist Lucy O’Brien for some time now (Dusty: The Classic Biography, Skin: It Takes Blood and Guts), and even getting a mention in the revised edition of her incredible She Bop: A Definitive History Of Women In Music a couple of years back, we were excited to find out about her latest venture: a biography of one of the most iconic women in music of the 20th century – Karen Carpenter, forty years after her passing. An insightful reframing of the often perceived ‘tragic’ figure, Lead Sister offers a fresh perspective on the life of Karen Carpenter; whilst touching on the sadness of her story, placing a focus on her strength and innovative drive. 

After reading the book and attending its London launch at Soho’s Century Club a couple of months back, I was lucky enough to catch up with Lucy to find out more about what inspired her to write the book and what she discovered about Karen along the way… 

Primarily known both for her angelic voice and struggles with Anorexia Nervosa, Karen Carpenter was so much more than merely the delicate front woman we’re so often presented with; as O’Brien points out – “No way she was just submissive – she was the driving force of the band… And it’s interesting to see this picture emerging of this forthright, pioneering woman.” As so often seems to be the case, Carpenter’s history seems to have been buried by the media’s perception of her and how a woman in the industry should be, and so it’s wonderful that O’Brien made it her mission with Lead Sister to reframe this existing narrative: “It was time to revisit her story and look at it through a new lens. Not only the eating disorder that she struggled with, but also how much she achieved despite that. Was she really just a submissive puppet? I doubt it. To achieve that level of success in the US music industry in the ‘70s, which is a hard place to be, I knew there had to be more to the story.” 

This uncovering of a subject’s narrative, finding new material and piecing the story together piece by piece is key in the job of biographer (“almost like a detective”), and something that O’Brien is no stranger to. Being able to cast a new light on stories told, taking into perspective the attitudes of the times and a deeper understanding of certain issues, is something she has done with previous books – revisiting her biography of Dusty Springfield in 2019, for example, she was able to explore the LGBTQ+ issues and Springfield’s sexuality more than she would have thirty years before for the original 1989 edition. Society’s attitudes shift, and so too do the voices we hear. Up until now we had only really heard one voice in the Karen Carpenter story – that of Richard – and O’Brien believed it was now time for that to change: “…. the story that emerges is the story of the people that want to contribute. Previous biographies, ones approved by family, tended to portray Karen as the victim – as someone with not much agency. What was great with this book, I was talking to people who hadn’t done many interviews before – giving a fresh perspective.”

Having briefly touched on Karen Carpenter’s story in She Bop, O’Brien jumped at the chance to focus on her story in more depth when Pete Selby (98 Books – Miki Berenyi, Jenniffer Otto) asked if she wanted to do a full biography: “I’ve always been fascinated by her and her amazing, fluid wonderful emotional voice. That juxtaposition of the perfect lush pop of The Carpenters and then the sadness within a lot of the music, and the lyrics.” One of the things that appealed to her the most was Karen’s strength of character and unrelenting energy for what she loved – like drumming. “When she joined the school marching band, that’s when things turned around for her and she found liberation through drumming. She used to go to a drum shop in LA where mostly male drummers would hang out. She would hang out with them and swap stories. She got her parents to buy her a drum kit. She had pictures of people like Buddy Guy on her bedroom wall at the age of 15. She had a vision. She was such a committed drummer. Realising things like that – I realised she was quite a tough cookie.” 

This passion for what was (and still is in some respects) quite an usual instrument for a woman to play marks Karen Carpenter out as somewhat ahead of her time, as did her fierce drive and determination: “She was very competitive in terms of wanting to succeed. Talking to head of promotion at A&M, he was in awe of her encyclopaedic knowledge of the music industry and radio stations across the country.” So, certainly not just a submissive counter-part to her brother – in fact, from the stirring account of their childhood in Lead Sister, it often seems as though she was the ‘tough’ one in their relationship, frequently sticking up to his bullies at school, or being reprimanded for her cheeky sense of humour. O’Brien reflects on these more ‘masculine’ qualities of Karen when we speak; speculating that perhaps, had she been alive today, she may have identified as more gender-fluid as she did not fit into the conventional ‘feminine stereotype’ that was certainly prevalent at the time. 

However, despite her strength, she faced opposition to her love of drumming as The Carpenters started to achieve success, with huge pressure put on her from both Richard and other men on the team, to stop ‘hiding’ behind the kit – “this is such a contradiction in terms”, O’Brien responds, “how can you ‘hide’ behind drums – drums are the most expressive instrument. She was really expressing herself.” Sadly, though she resisted it for a long time, it seems that she lost the battle to be able to stay doing what she loved, and was almost ‘de-skilled’ by having to simply stand up front and sell the songs, “be a decorative front woman”. Understandably, this must have dented her confidence and been very frustrating for someone with such massive skill and passion – “… even though she had amazing voice, that wasn’t all there was to her…”, O’Brien explains, “… Every moment she could, she would find time to play the drums – like on their 1976 tour, she’d play an amazing drum solo right in the middle of concert.” (This tour is actually where the name of the book comes from, as – when the Carpenters toured Japan – a magazine mistakenly referred to her as the ‘lead sister’ of the band. She loved this title so much that she had it made into a t-shirt which she wore whilst thrashing out some beats at every opportunity on tour.) 

It was particularly heartwarming, then, for O’Brien this year, on the 40th anniversary of Karen’s passing, that a new emphasis seemed to be on her skill as a drummer: “That was what people were emphasising, much more than in the past when focus was always on her ‘silken’ voice – it’s really interesting how what we see and what we appreciate has shifted in terms of her expertise and what she symbolised.” 

The way in which Karen Carpenter struggled to fit into traditional ‘feminine’ roles is not a new perception. When speaking to some of her closest friends, O’Brien discovered how she had often found it difficult to fit in. Petula Clark, for example, reflected on Karen adjusting to the Beverly Hills culture, trying to turn herself into an “uptown Beverly Hills Queen” when that really wasn’t her; she was essentially just a musician’s musician, a “tom boy”. Remembering one particular instance, she told O’Brien of when she felt extremely uncomfortable seeing Karen feeling pressured to present herself in a certain way that wasn’t her true self, at a bridal shower she held at a country club with Beverly Hills socialites (before briefly marrying a real estate developer). Reflecting on how it seems that Karen wasn’t allowed to fully express herself and pursue what she was really passionate about, both in her professional and personal life, may go some way to explaining the root of her mental health struggles – “striving to become someone she wasn’t; someone that really wasn’t her.” 

However, looking back at Karen’s life, it’s clear that other factors could have played a part. When she was twelve, for example, the family moved from Connecticut to LA, primarily to help Richard with his career (“he was seen as the gifted musician”). Being uprooted at this age is bound to be difficult for anyone; especially as someone who been a straight A student, with lots of friends, keen on sports and very active, suddenly being moved to somewhere completely new where she did not know anyone. After they moved, Karen stopped playing sports and withdrew into herself, often binge eating and not feeling motivated to achieve (until she found marching band, and drumming later on). “All those facts were there”, O’Brien points out when reflecting on Karen’s struggles, “but no one thought to look at them and realise that it would been very traumatic…” 

O’Brien admits that it was difficult at times to delve into what Karen went through; from her somewhat dysfunctional upbringing and family relationships, to the later stages of her eating disorder – “it did become quite dark”, she reflects, “… it’s heart rending how much you realise she was struggling with it on her own. There wasn’t even a language for it – it was seen as slimming gone too far, and there nothing around to help… When it’s chronic, it is very hard. She did get to the chronic stage and she found it impossible even just looking in the mirror, the body dysmorphia was so strong.” 

Just listening to the Carpenters now, and what still seems to resonate so much, is how “you can hear the pain in her voice and the way she sings”; it’s deeply stirring, and O’Brien’s beautifully sensitive reflection immerses you in Karen’s story with a moving grace. Just reading the book, let alone having to research it, I have been deeply affected at times, and felt a strange, poignant connection to Karen Carpenter and what she went through; as O’Brien recalls George McKay (Skinny blues: Karen Carpenter, Anorexia Nervosa and Popular Music) telling her in one conversation – Karen really gets into your head. 

However, O’Brien tells me that speaking to those that knew Karen best, the light shone through; the strength of the person behind the public figure – “the more I could see the survivor in there, the pioneer.” One such person was Cherry Boone O’Neill, of the famous ‘70s sister pop group, The Boones. A close friend of Karen’s towards the end – and someone who had undergone similar experiences with a showbiz family, and also struggled with Anorexia herself -, she was able to offer a lot of insight and deeper understanding into the ‘real’ Karen. Having found a way through her illness, she was able to offer Karen a lot of advice; one of the key things she said to her when she was particularly struggling during the late ‘70s was that she should move away from LA, and from the industry – “Eating disorders are classed as addiction – so, you need to be away from the stress and circumstances that are creating this”, O’Brien explains, “… and, for Cherry, she had to move to Oregon, do intensive psychotherapy and take medication. It took a long time to recover, and she had to stop singing for a while.” However, for Karen, this was not option – she couldn’t stop singing, it was so important to her. In a way, it seems that her determination and unrelenting drive to get things done were ironically what prevented her from getting well herself – the feeling that there were a lot of people in the industry and family that were relying on her to keep everything going (especially whilst her brother Richard was in rehab).

Choosing not to take her friend’s advice, Karen went on to create her first solo album in 1979. Although, physically, she was deteriorating by this point, “I think she was just enjoying herself”, O’Brien reflects, “… she was nearly 30 and growing into an adult woman and wanted to explore the music of liberation at the time…” The recording of the album saw her delve into disco and soul with an array of incredible musicians (including Billy Joel’s backing band) – “Karen loved it. She was able to ditch that goody two shoes image that in America had seemed to hamper her reputation.” As a former boyfriend, Tom Bahler, joyfully reminisced with O’Brien, “she could certainly kick booty”. It seems poignantly bittersweet that Karen was able to finally express herself and find this cathartic joy through what she was creating so near the end, particularly thinking about what else she could have gone on to do; producer/arranger Bob James sharing with O’Brien that he really felt that she was on a journey and could have gone to have a great solo career. O’Brien is keen to highlight the enterprising and adventurous sense of spirit that shone through Karen even so near the end. With this album, for example, she travelled to New York and got herself a producer and some musicians, all in a very short space of time and independently: “That’s what I really enjoyed about her as I explored what she did and the people that she interacted with”, O’Brien reflects, “… the humour and strength that she approached things with.” Sadly, however, “it was the case with Karen that her spirit was willing, but the body was weak. By then, she just didn’t have the physical strength to push it through.” 

Although it is impossible to ignore the ‘darkness’ – the struggles she endured and the tragedy of Karen’s untimely passing – throughout Lead Sister what strikes you is this innovative artist’s effervescent, tenacious spirit, and it seems this spirit was present throughout the whole of O’Brien’s experience of researching and writing the book: “I did feel Karen was there, nudging me – almost assuring me, ‘that’s how I want people to remember me.’” A time when her presence seemed strongest was when O’Brien visited the studios where the Carpenters recorded their music (now Henson Studios) – “… there was this element of psycho geography that was quite transcendent.” The engineers, even now, still wish Karen goodnight at the end of every day. 

And it’s not just in those studios that Karen’s presence seems resonant today; people continue to be intrigued and inspired by her, whilst also – 40 years on – continuing to feel a striking sadness about her story. O’Brien speculates: “With Karen’s death, a bit like with Amy Winehouse, there was sense of collective failure, particularly within the music industry. With lots of people I interviewed, there seemed to be this feeling of collective failure and trauma – even after all these years, people are still asking why, wanting to ensure that something like that doesn’t happen again.” Thankfully, things have progressed somewhat in society’s understanding of eating disorders and the industry’s awareness of artists’ wellbeing today, and we can hope that this ensures its female subjects in particular are healthier and happier – “There’s a lot more awareness now within the industry, and within record companies in particular, about artists’ mental health and wellbeing, and making provision for that. It is now usually a part of management practice, and there is a whole discourse about how to look after artists, particularly female artists, and singers who may be vulnerable to eating disorders, given the relentless pressure to look ‘sexy’ or ‘glamorous’ to sell the music.”

However, had Karen still been physically with us today, O’Brien feels that she would have been a strong advocate for young women and non binary folk in the industry, helping to push things forwards for their wellbeing: “I think she would have been such a key figure. I can imagine her leading drumming workshops and being a mentor for young musicians. I can also imagine her being on panels – she was so engaged with so many things, and I think she had great business sense as well.” 

Finally, I ask O’Brien what she feels artists today could learn from Karen: “That passionate pursuit of what drives you”, she replies, “…to allow yourself to be completely immersed – utterly single minded in what you want to do. That joy in which Karen approached music. Even though it’s such a sad story, I just knew that when she was in studio, creating music, singing her heart out, she was happy. She was completely in herself.” Even in her short time with us, Karen Carpenter was able to create so much and become such an inspiration to others – she was determined, innovative, tenacious and courageous. And witty. All qualities which are highlighted beautifully throughout Lead Sister – a truly refreshing perspective on this well-known story, amplifying the voice of the person who matters the most, Karen. It truly allows her strengths to shine; to embolden others, and to leave a lasting imprint of her sparkling spirit: “… it’s like she’s here now”, O’Brien ponders, “… it’s as though she’s saying ‘Don’t remember me with sadness, just remember me with joy.’”

Lead Sister: The Story Of Karen Carpenter is out now via 98 Books. I strongly recommend getting yourself a copy of it here. Be prepared to feel the true presence of Karen with you throughout, thanks to O’Brien’s thorough research, compelling storytelling and empathetic reflection.

Mari Lane
@marimindles

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